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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>Proposal: Audio Meeting for the Reference · t-lang/doc · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/index.html">t-lang/doc</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html">Proposal: Audio Meeting for the Reference</a></h3>

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<a name="223580147"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223580147" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223580147">(Jan 21 2021 at 22:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd like to propose having an audio meeting about the Reference. At a minimum, I'd like to have @ehuss attend, but also anybody else who wishes too.</p>



<a name="223654481"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223654481" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Eric Huss <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223654481">(Jan 22 2021 at 15:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can probably do an audio meeting. I'm in Pacific US timezone.  Do you have a specific agenda?</p>



<a name="223675353"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223675353" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223675353">(Jan 22 2021 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm Mountain US time zone and would listen in if it fit my schedule</p>



<a name="223719919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223719919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223719919">(Jan 23 2021 at 00:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm also pacific standard time, though I tend to get up after noon / have an ever shifting work schedule. I do have some topics in mind, but I haven't written them down. They're things I feel would make quick progress discussing it. I'll write them down in a couple minutes though.</p>
<p>Currently I'm completely off Monday through Wednesday and Friday next week if there's a good time/date for you on one of them.</p>



<a name="223721206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223721206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223721206">(Jan 23 2021 at 00:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>The things I'd like to discuss:</p>
<ul>
<li>Pros and cons to switching to one sentence is one line.</li>
<li>A discussion on what layout actually is and what has layout.</li>
<li>Usage of "place operand".</li>
<li>Express my gratitude.</li>
</ul>



<a name="223725962"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223725962" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223725962">(Jan 23 2021 at 02:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Mondays are the only daytime segment I have free, so let's do that if <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="120518">@Eric Huss</span> (and any others) can also do Monday</p>



<a name="223753521"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223753521" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Eric Huss <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223753521">(Jan 23 2021 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Any time on Monday is fine with me.</p>



<a name="223768095"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223768095" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223768095">(Jan 23 2021 at 19:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>Alright. Let's say 1PM? Also, we need a platform that supports voice. I'd say Discord, but we don't have a voice channel on the Rust server, so what work's for y'all?</p>



<a name="223773719"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223773719" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223773719">(Jan 23 2021 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>1pm pacific?</p>



<a name="223773789"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223773789" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223773789">(Jan 23 2021 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>hangouts or a discord server is fine. there are voice channels in the community server that are usually free</p>



<a name="223830382"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223830382" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Eric Huss <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223830382">(Jan 24 2021 at 19:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>1pm is good.  I don't have much of an opinion on what to use.</p>



<a name="223858531"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223858531" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223858531">(Jan 25 2021 at 06:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure how to contact the people who run the official Rust discord and we're all on the unofficial one, so we might as well use that one. I'll post an invite in here as well for anybody else who wants to listen who might not be in that one.</p>



<a name="223955865"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223955865" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223955865">(Jan 25 2021 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://discord.gg/rwetEadT">Invite link for the community discord</a></p>



<a name="223968275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223968275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223968275">(Jan 25 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>My notes from the meeting:</p>
<p>Layout:</p>
<p>Move to memory model;<br>
Identity holes in what is described;<br>
Describe in terms of memory and not just types.<br>
Type representation attributes should still be on the layout page.</p>
<p>Place operand: Good to use;</p>
<p>Grammar: Explicitly document the ambiguity of expressions;</p>
<p>Attributes:</p>
<p>They're the only documentation we have on it.<br>
Figure out where they're allowed but useless.</p>
<p>Boolean:</p>
<p>Describe the behavior of operators on the type chapter; link to this behavior<br>
on the operators page. There's a weird part where the operator traits are impled<br>
in the library and not in the language.</p>
<p>Normative:</p>
<p>People really really want us to have even a single normative statement. Would<br>
need the lang team to sign off on this. It's hard because it's hard to verify<br>
that it's correct. Other languages references aren't always specified great<br>
either.</p>
<p>Quality:</p>
<p>Ultimately, the want for normativeness seems to be a want for assurance of quality.<br>
It's hard to state whether a page is missing something, but some pages are<br>
obviously missing quality. Perhaps we can leave comments stating that we believe<br>
they are of the standard for the Reference.</p>



<a name="223968609"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223968609" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> isHavvy <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223968609">(Jan 25 2021 at 22:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>If you feel I missed anything of substance, it was hard to write and talk at the same time. It's also not in temporal order.</p>



<a name="223978129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223978129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223978129">(Jan 25 2021 at 23:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd say that normative is different from quality.</p>



<a name="223978208"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223978208" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223978208">(Jan 25 2021 at 23:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Currently, the compiler overrides the reference. if the reference says something that the compiler doesn't do, basically the reference is wrong</p>



<a name="223978240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223978240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223978240">(Jan 25 2021 at 23:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>(or maybe there's a bug, whatever, i don't care)</p>



<a name="223978275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223978275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223978275">(Jan 25 2021 at 23:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>however, when there's a normative statement somewhere, then that takes priority, and the compiler becomes the thing that's wrong</p>



<a name="223982265"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal%3A%20Audio%20Meeting%20for%20the%20Reference/near/223982265" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Connor Horman <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/237824-t-lang/doc/topic/Proposal.3A.20Audio.20Meeting.20for.20the.20Reference.html#223982265">(Jan 26 2021 at 00:24)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>however, when there's a normative statement somewhere, then that takes priority, and the compiler becomes the thing that's wrong</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Indeed, and it gives other implementors something they can use, rather than trying to figure out every edge case in rust{,c} themselves.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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